We have just returned from what we feel was a very profitable dialog with several in the Churches of Christ (COC). Each year Abilene Christian University (ACU) holds its Lectureship on campus in Abilene, Texas. This year they invited four ICOC ministers to join them for a conversation about the ICOC and its recent events, which would include three one-hour sessions covering three days. It was a great experience, and we believe that much good was accomplished. More than 40 ministers and elders from various ICOC congregations were present for the Lectureship and were very positive about the proceedings. Gordon Ferguson, Al Baird, Gregg Marutzky, and Mike Taliaferro spoke with Jack Reese, Terry Smith, Jim Woodruff and John Wilson of the COC. We all met privately on Saturday for prayer and conversation. That was an extremely positive meeting. The Lectureship started Sunday night, and our forum began on Monday afternoon.

Day One included just the moderator, Mark Love, on the stage with the four of us in the ICOC before an audience of about 1500. We each presented a few opening remarks...six minutes each. We noted that we were not speaking for the ICOC as a whole, nor did they speak for the COC as a whole. Each man spoke for himself. Al talked about our history, Gordon talked about our mistakes, Mike summarized our successes, and Gregg talked about the changes taking place in the ICOC as a result of the last year and a half. We expressed our regrets and recounted our mistakes. We apologized for not listening when they had voiced their concerns. We also reaffirmed our dream for evangelizing a lost world, and that dream is very much alive. The response of the audience was simply amazing. They were VERY kind and gracious. They clapped, said amen, and afterward swarmed to the front to encourage us. We were very moved by their warmth and the grace they poured out on us.

Day Two, the four COC panelists took the stage with us and made their opening remarks. They apologized for being judgmental, and they also apologized for having called us a cult. They promised to stop the name calling and the stereotyping of our churches. We were overwhelmed with their humility and love. Many openly cried. We were all very moved at their grace and willingness to forgive and move on.

Day Three was a conversation about the future. We each dreamed about where these talks might take us. Both sides affirmed that this was not at all a declaration of a merger. We acknowledged differences in our two fellowships of churches which include both our church culture as well as doctrine. We did not have time to discuss publicly those differences. But we each felt that there was a new spirit between us...a spirit of good will and humility toward one another. As Dr. Money (ACU president) noted in his opening remarks, we did not come to merge but to converse.

What does all this mean practically? For starters it means that we made many new friends. We began the healing of past hurts. We opened up lines of communication. It does not mean a merger. Day Three included many points of caution. There were warnings about being too euphoric. No one is about to start holding joint services. No one even recommended that our leaders knock on the doors of all the COC leaders in our town. Differences are real. We did, however, discuss the need and desire to get to know each other. Mike Taliaferro made the comment that while we aren't getting married, this was a nice first date! We in the ICOC expressed several areas in which we could learn from them. This included academic study, an obvious strength of theirs, praise worship and spiritual formation. They acknowledged our successes in evangelism and church planting, as well as our overall zeal for the lost. We left with a great spirit between us, committed to deepening the friendships begun there in Abilene. We were very impressed with the COC panelists. We want to underline their sincerity and integrity. They were very kind and loving, yet still very honest with their questions when we spoke in private. Publicly they were very gracious.

May God take the results of these three days together and lead us forward.

Christian Chronicle

Apologies and tearful reunions part of dialogue with Int. Churches of Christ von Erik Tryggestad ©

ABILENE, TEXAS - It was a historic and sometimes tear-filled reunion for members of churches of Christ and International Churches of Christ at the annual Abilene Christian University lectureship.

Leaders in the ICOC, some of whom had not visited the Abilene, Texas, school for nearly 20 years, detailed plans for the future of their churches, and reunited with long-lost friends.

The ICOC leaders apologized for the authoritarian discipling techniques and judgmental elitism that led many of their members away from the movement and created friction with mainline church members.

Representatives of mainline churches apologized for using the word "cult" as a careless label in referring to the ICOC and for years of mistrust between the two groups.

Although the late-February meeting, billed Faithful Conversations, was not an attempt to merge the two groups, it provided much-needed dialogue between movements with common roots movements that had grown distrustful of each other during years of little or no communication, said ACU president Royce Money.

It's been too long since we have gotten together for a conversation, Money told more than 1,000 members of both groups, who gathered in the school's arena Feb. 23 for the first of three discussions.

We are here to begin a conversation, he said, adding that it would serve as the first step toward healing.

The ICOC, previously know as the Crossroads and Boston movements, and the mainline churches of Christ parted ways in the early 1990s. ICOC sources told the Chronicle that current membership is about 135,000 people in 434 churches in 159 countries.

The ICOC underwent a major transition with the resignation of longtime leader Kip McKean in late 2002. Since then, the ICOC has undergone a period of change and reassessment.

The event included participants Al Baird, Mike Taliaferro, Gregg Marutzky and Gordon Ferguson of the ICOC. The leaders detailed the apologies made to fellow ICOC members and members of mainline churches in the past year, many of which were posted on ICOC Web sites. They also highlighted the changes in church leadership.

Representing mainline churches were Jack Reese, Jim Woodroof, Terry Smith and John Wilson.

As we confront, confess, talk and pray together, we want to heal together, said Taliaferro, evangelist for the San Antonio ICOC. We are spending a lot of late nights talking and listening. It's a wonderful thing to make amends, like the Proverbs said.

Ferguson, a longtime leader in the ICOC, said that he was glad to reopen channels of communication with mainline church members.

We have exhibited a judgmental elitism. We don’t want that, Ferguson said. I have burned bridges that separated me from friends, family, co-workers, and I am deeply sorry for all those things.

We have changed amazingly rapidly, and we are determined to do what is right before God and before men.

Mark Love, ACU lectureship director, said that lack of communication has fueled animosity between the two groups.

It's like we have been in a coma for 20 years ... and we know so little about each other's lives, he said.

While division loves silence, peace cherishes conversation, Love said. The good news is that change in both groups has brought us to a place where conversation is again welcomed and desired.

ICOC and Mainline Forum: A Meeting of the Minds von Lindy Adams ©

It is 3 p.m. on Monday, Feb. 23 in Moody Coliseum at Abilene Christian University, Abilene, Texas, and the air is thick with nervous anticipation.
Soon to begin is a three-day Lectureship Forum termed “Faithful Conversations” featuring eight representatives of the International Church of Christ (ICOC) and the churches of Christ (termed for the purpose of this coverage, “mainline”).

The audience is slowly assembling. Some faces are familiar to those who attend the ACU lectures each February. But many are newcomers unknown to the majority of the audience and to this venue.

People see and are seen, renew old acquaintances and make new ones, and enjoy themselves while keeping an eye on the row of chairs soon to be filled.

Occasionally, an ICOC leader will warmly greet a well-known “mainline” leader rarely seen since college days.

Old ties — a new era.

At this first session, moderator Mark Love, lectureship director, will lead the discussion with four ICOC leaders. At the second and third sessions those four will be joined by four mainline leaders.

Promptly at 3:15, the participants take their places and hours of heartfelt dialogue begin.

THREE HISTORIC DAYS

ACU president Royce Money termed the first day’s session “historic.” The four-and-a-half hours of total conversation illuminated many of the issues on the hearts of both groups.

Discussions included the ICOC’s status today, the role of Kip McKean, helping those still hurting, the failures of the mainline church of Christ, church autonomy, future visions and cautions to observe.

Participants and observers alike were heartened and warmed by a spirit of fellowship and interchange that panelists said they wouldn’t have thought possible.

An estimated 40 ICOC ministers and many ICOC members attended the Forum. Times of discussion, prayer, and requests for forgiveness on both sides were highlights of the meeting and the lectureship, participants said.

KEY CONCERNS

As the Forum progressed, some mainline members expressed concern about how long it would take the ICOC to regroup and how clearly it would abandon the practices of over/under discipling and performance-based congregational life.

However, ICOC participants were unequivocal in their statements about such practices.

ICOC participant Gordan Ferguson said, “We have ended the practice of over/under discipling. ... We are moving away from performance orientation and are getting back to basic Bible, as we should.”

And what about Kip McKean, now an ICOC evangelist in Portland, Ore., and his relation to the ICOC?

ICOC panelist Gregg Marutzky’s response: “Please don’t believe the comments he makes are as if he is speaking for all of us; that’s not the case, and that’s not going to be the case in the future.”

Ferguson said, “... we will not go back to one man leading the movement again.”

Mike Taliaferro of the ICOC said, “We are going to have one man leading the movement, and that is going to be Jesus Christ.”

SIX PLACES TO LEARN

On the Forum’s last day, moderator Mark Love enumerated six areas the eight participants had discussed outside the formal discussions “where we can learn from each other.”

These are:
• The mainline wants to learn more from the ICOC about church planting.
• Both groups want to learn from each other about training ministers.
• Both groups want to learn more about how Christians are formed over a lifetime.
• Both groups want to learn from each other regarding sectarianism and elitism — about loving despite differences.
• Some ICOC leaders want to learn from the mainline regarding worship.

IMMEDIATE RESPONSE

Within days of the Forum, discussion boards and publications of the ICOC and the mainline had registered response.

The Chicago Tribune in a March 5 article quoted Chicago elder Steve Staten as saying, “We were expressing how we hurt the people in the audience. We had lots of tears in fellowship. Lots of hugging, reconciliation. People making plans to do things together.”

ICOC participant Mike Taliaferro said of the Forum, “... maybe we are not getting married, but it was a real nice first date.”

Apologies, tears highlight ICOC talks in Abilene von Erik Tryggestad ©

One ICOC leader visited Abilene Christian for the first time in 20 years

ABILENE, TEXAS - Driving down Hwy. 83 in west Texas, Mike Taliaferro called his wife on his cell phone.

“Honey, I’m drivin’ right by the mountaintop where I asked you to marry me,” he said. The Abilene Christian University graduate had been away from his alma mater for 20 years.

In those 20 years Taliaferro and his fellow ministers in the International Churches of Christ saw, in their movement, unprecedented growth and excitement, followed by anger and bitterness. They also experienced growing mistrust with the movement that gave them birth — mainline churches of Christ.

But in an historic and sometimes tear-filled reunion, more than 1,000 members of both groups met during the ACU lectureship Feb. 23-25. ICOC leaders apologized for authoritarian discipling techniques and “judgmental elitism” that drove members away.

Representatives of mainline churches apologized for using the word “cult” as a careless label for the ICOC.

Taliaferro, minister for the San Antonio ICOC, fondly recalled his ACU professors, including veteran Africa missionary Wendell Broom. After the session, Broom, who was sitting in the audience, hurried forward to hug his former student.

Members of both groups said that the talks were a good first step toward healing

Panelists: Al Baird, Gordon Ferguson, Gregg Marutzky, Mike Taliaferro.

Welcome: Royce Money, president, Abilene Christian:

“We are honored that you have chosen to join us this year for what we think is a historic moment. We especially want to extend a welcome today to our friends from the International Churches of Christ. It has been too long since we have gathered for conversation, and we are delighted to have you with us this week.”

“Just as in any family, the things that cannot be discussed enslave and divide us. Healthy families keep the lines of communication open no matter how painful or difficult those conversations may be. ACU is committed to keeping people talking.”

“There has been precious little conversation between these two groups for nearly twenty years. Therefore, we think conversation is an appropriate first step toward healing. We seek in these next three days added clarity, deeper understanding, and greater hope for the future through open dialogue. This is a significant first step. Having stated what this forum is, let me be clear what it is not. It is not an attempt to merge our two movements. Neither ACU, nor any of the panelists speak in any official way for either side in this conversation. Beyond, however, the lack of official sanction for formal unity conversations, we recognize that the things that have divided us are real and that the pain experienced by both sides has often been deep and anguished. Though we hold great promise for these conversations, we know that we cannot in a little over three hours overcome all that has divided us.”

Day One; Panelists: ICOC representatives Al Baird, Gordon Ferguson, Gregg Marutzky, Mike Taliaferro.

Mark Love: Give us a brief overview of the International Churches of Christ (ICOC).

Al Baird:
In the late 80s, we had 6,000 in attendance (Boston Church of Christ), and we were meeting in the Boston Gardens. Mission work has always been one of our highlights. In 1986 we gave $1 million for missions, and they gave $2 million the next year. The church in Johnannesburg, SA. has planted 60 churches in 40 nations in Africa. There are churches in every city over one million population in the old USSR. We planted AIDS clinics in Africa, leper colonies in India, a hospital in Cambodia, and benevolent projects in 60 nations.

Mike Taliaferro:
Churches have been planted in 150 nations. Forty of these have more than 1,000 in attendance. We have 220,000 in attendance worldwide. Our fervent zeal to win the lost has been great.

Mark Love: Give us a sense of what the public statements and apologies from ICOC leaders during the last year are about.

Gordon Ferguson:
They centered around four things; (l) authoritarian over/under discipling relationships.( There were some good things about it, but abuses took place and some people were hurt very deeply.) (2) authoritarian hierarchical leadership roles. Our intentions were good, but while we gave lip service to not lording it over people, I think we violated Matt. 20 in exercising authority over one another in a worldly way. (3) performance-based motivation. We wanted to do great things for God, . . .but, honestly, I think we violated Galatians 1. We preached the gospel plus productivity and performance to the point that it became a different gospel that aroused the displeasure of God and brought on the discipline of God that we experienced as a movement. We are determined to change and have Christ as the center of our message, not man or his performance.(4) We have exhibited a judgmental elitism.

Mark Love: Talk about the changes you see going on in the ICOC.

Mike Taliaferro:
We have done away with the top-down hierarchy that we had in the past, and we now recognize the mature independence of every congregation in our fellowship of churches. . . .We have ended the practice of over/under discipling. We don’t believe one Christian should be giving orders to another. We are definitely stressing topics like grace, the cross, God’s love. We are moving away from performance orientation and getting back to basic Bible, as we should.

Gregg Marutzky:
We owe our brothers and sisters an apology because of our lack of fellowship and extending of love and friendship toward them. Theologically, our view of God is expanding. We were very duty-oriented, very driven, and our understanding is that we have a God who desires mercy, not just sacrifice. Our understanding of church is expanding. It was a corporation or an army, but it needs to become a family. We are also now opening up our fellowship. . . and recognizing diversity and gifts. . .we are embracing the freedom of the gospel.

Mark Love: What is the relationship of Kip McKean to ICOC today?

Al Baird:
He is an evangelist in the church in Portland and in the same way that I am an evangelist in the church in Los Angeles.We don’t know how we are going to evolve in leadership. I think we will probably never go back to one man leading the movement again.

Gordon Ferguson:
For our part, we will not go back to a one-man leadership of the movement.

Gregg Marutzky:
Kip had a huge influence on our movement. … That influence is not there anymore, and each congregation is making their own decisions. We want to move forward. Please don’t believe that the comments he makes are as if he is speaking for all of us; that’s not the case. And that’s not going to be the case in the future.

Mike Taliaferro:
We are a fellowship right now of independent, Bible-believing churches. Yes, we are going to have one man lead the movement, and that is going to be Jesus Christ.

Mark Love: In your apologies, you talk about wanting to reach out to those who have been hurt. What are you doing along those lines?

Gregg Marutzky:
Some people can’t heal in our fellowship. There is too much pain. Even coming to church reminds them of ways they have been hurt, so we have been very active in encouraging people to go to other congregations, mainline churches where they can heal in a different environment. We haven’t been as quick to tell people to go for professional counseling, but we are definitely going to be doing that more. [In our congregations] we are listening more and opening up opportunities for people to share, trying to create holistic small groups that are functioning as healing centers where people of like pain are getting together and sharing.

Mark Love: In the Boston apology letter, you mention a move to widen the circle of leadership and decision making. Can you point to some things that are going on in churches that suggest there is less hierarchal authoritarian church structure.

Gordon Ferguson:
At Phoenix,, for example, we are in the process of appointing elders and deacons. Some churches have advisory groups representing various segments of the congregation for input. We are also learning how to divide things up, get people involved, and let God empower people to use their gifts. This is a very healthy and super-exciting thing.

Mike Taliaferro:
Especially since this last year, there’s been lots of talking about relationships and feelings. As we confront, confess, talk and pray together, great healing can take place because of the blood of Jesus Christ.

Mark Love: You say you are wanting to get away and emphasis on numbers and telling the ICOC story with them. How will you assess the ICOC without numbers?

Gordon Ferguson:
We do keep up with numbers. That’s not a bad thing, if you use them the right way. It’s an indicator that helps guide some things. In the past we’ve often used them in the wrong way to motivate, and there has been some pride involved in that [the collection]. We just need to be sure that when the reporting is done that everyone understands and feels that God. . .used us in spite of who we are. And to him must go the glory.

Mike Taliaferro:
We have way overemphasized the quantitative. We have to define ourselves and the church and its growth and success just as much qualitatively—mainly, are people becoming more Christ-like? We’ve defined success as baptisms. That was unhealthy and very narrow. We quit being healthy churches because we weren’t honoring the other aspects of spirituality and the use of gifts and talents.

Mark Love: There has been perception on the part of the mainline that we were not perceived as Christians, and our baptisms weren’t accepted in your churches. How do you view us now?

Gregg Marutzky:
That came from a wrong interpretation of Matthew 28, and we have corrected that misteaching. We are here to acknowledge you as our brothers and sisters. At the time that we doubted that, we were playing judge and playing God.

Day Two: ICOC Representatives and mainline panelists were Jack Reese, Terry Smith, John Wilson, Jim Woodruff

Mark Love: Do you have any reflections based upon what you heard yesterday [from the ICOC leaders] and your experience?

John Wilson:
When the campus ministry movement began in the Church of Christ, I felt it was going to be a vehicle for great renewal and new power in evangelism. They (his students) were bright, committed, energetic, deeply concerned about evangelism. Why didn’t it work out? I found they were more interested in teaching than in learning and in leading than in following. Something was wrong in the relationship from the beginning, a sense of us and them. . . . At that time we looked in awe at the number baptisms, and we wanted to learn from that. . . .but somewhere we broke off talking. . . We didn’t look to each other and learn from each other, and my hope is now that is exactly what we are going to do.

Jim Woodroof:
You guys [ICOC] are our children, a microcosm of the mainline Church of Christ. . .There was a defect in both our messages The mainline Churches of Christ and the ICOC made something other than Christ our message. The mainline made the church our message, and we pointed to ritual and form as the evidence that we were the people of God. The ICOC made the movement their message; they made progress in their numbers, and that became their message. The point was and is that we have made something other than Jesus Christ our message, and when you do that, you create a denomination.

Jack Reese:
We don’t want to lose perspective in our rush to embrace and assume we are the same. There are some different impulses, drives, concerns, and interests that are going to take time to sort out. But. . . there are apologies that need to be expressed by the mainline churches. Many among us have been guilty at times of name-calling; we have judged and condemned. . . .We have been guilty at times of creating quarrels and not correcting with gentleness. Some of the ministries in some of the ICOC churches had cult-like effects, but as the mainline churches, we used this word too often. It has been our posture of superiority, to put you down and. . .say you don’t have the truth that we have.

Mark Love: What has kept us from this [conversation] so long?

Al Baird:
I think God has orchestrated this whole thing. I don’t think we could have had this conversation ten years ago. We weren’t there, and I don’t think you were either. . . . I am just thankful it is happening now.

Gordon Ferguson:
When I started getting around the discipling churches almost 20 years ago, I got a fair amount of criticism from the mainline. I was hurt, and I pulled back.

Jim Woodroof:
It was pride on the part of all of us that kept us apart.

Mike Taliaferro:
Fear is a factor. When I was invited to be a part of these conversations, I lost sleep.. . .and yet your reception here has been incredible. I have felt very loved, and I appreciate that because when the fear comes down, we can restore relationships the way God wants us to do.

Gregg Marutzky:
I know I closed up my heart when my brothers called me a cult member. I was baptized; I have faith in Jesus Christ as Lord; I have never followed anyone but Jesus, and I should have preached that message, not the message of the movement or the church. But that hurt, and it means the world for that label to be taken away from me by my brothers, and that’s going to bring about great healing.

Jack Reese:
I was young and frustrated with what I saw [in the campus ministry movement of the 60s] as performance-oriented, top-down legalism. I was fed up, and I gave on it.

Mark Love:
You have talked here about become mature, independent congregations. That sounds like autonomy to me.

Mike Taliaferro:
Our churches are autonomous in that. . .they are separate and independent churches. I do believe in a Scriptural oversight of a young congregation that needs help. But in the ICOC movement “autonomy” means a sinfully, separate, have-nothing-to-do-with-one-another attitude. In the ICOC congregations we are slow to use the word “autonomous” because it is a loaded word.

Al Baird:
I’d like to say away from some of the buzzwords—autonomous, hierarchal, because they conjure up so many things that it’s hard to know where we’re going. The point is we need some cooperation and we’ve got to work together. We get in trouble if we are all independent churches, doing our own thing in a selfish way and not cooperating together to somehow win the world. We have been in this top down thing, and we’re not going there again in that way, but somehow we want to figure out a way we can cooperate with each other so that in a united way we can win the world for Jesus Christ.

Mark Love:
We would remind you that this is a beginning, a promising beginning. Beginnings imply continuings. It implies a future, and that’s why we’ve gathered today, to see if we can have a little vision for what tomorrow might be or the next week or a year from now or the indefinite future.

Gordon Ferguson:
I have seen that we are tired of and saddened by our sectarian spirits of the past on both sides. I think we are tired of looking for ways to divide and we are very much interested in looking for ways that we can be united on what we hold in common. At the same time, we understand that there are differences among us that are real. ... the exciting thing is that this is the beginning of opening dialogue back up that has been dead for a long time. Many of you have expressed things to us that you feel like you could offer. We certainly see things in you that we want to learn from, and so we are hopeful that this is a great beginning of having differences to actually unite us in ways rather than divide us.

John Wilson:
The International Churches of Christ have had an inner life, some of which they have been sharing with us that was unknown to us. Things were going. There was learning; there was discussion; there were changes, all those kinds of things, and we didn’t know about it because we weren’t talking to each other. It’s been a real revelation in many cases to have these brothers say we would raise an issue and they would say to us, but they would say to us, we know that. We know that. We have been talking about that and working with that. So I have appreciated that.

Both of us — mainline and ICOC — people who are committed to the word of God, and I have always felt that sooner or later the word has a way of winning out. The whole history of Christianity is a case of our obscuring and getting on the wrong track and mixing things up. And somehow or another there is a power in the word that as long as any movement continues to tie itself closely to the word and to the authority of the word, sooner or later there is going to be change and reformation. We are seeing that for that precise reason in both of these groups—in us and them.

Third, I do have a sense as we close these discussions of the unfinishness of the process. There is a lot left to do, and you will probably hear more about that as we go along today.

Mark Love:
Mike, give us a glimpse of the future.

Mike Taliaferro:
... I think a whole new day is dawning. ... I believe one big difference this week that has happened is that there is a new spirit of humility and a new spirit of goodwill that is as refreshing as it is surprising.

Okay, sure, maybe we are not getting married, but it was a real nice first date.

We’ve allowed in the ICOC very little outside perspective, and I have enjoyed this week just fresh, frank opinions from people that we respect and trust. I think that you are here at ACU, your academic infrastructure is impressive. Ours in the ICOC is in its infancy, and I know many effective ministers are thinking about some academic training. I think there are some obvious possibilities there. It’s always good to grow deeper in your knowledge of the text, the biblical languages, theology. Also I think of our overseas staff around the world. WE love the word of God, and we are all interested in going deeper in our knowledge of the word of God, and I wonder if there are opportunities even online with the Internet. Just in serving and helping ministers all around the world. In Africa, we have about 200 staff people. What are the possibilities there? It’s interesting. Also I think of visiting between the two — weekends and preaching.

Jack Reese:
I’ve enjoyed the date, but I never considered kissing you. Give me time on that one! I share with Mike and all those on the panel a sense of great optimism as I began to have conversations several months ago with the four representatives of the ICOC. I came into that first meeting with a great deal of apprehension and all of my antenna up. It’s been a joy to get to know and to spend prayer time and to dream together, and I am grateful for the relationships.

... it’s one thing to recognize that all of us share a common baptism and a common hope and a common salvation, it’s another to say we are exactly the same, and the future is the same for all of us. I think we have to work through a number of things.

We were not anticipating some kind of a merger, but we do have confidence that God is working among us all, and we will trust in Him.

I am not sure any of us are advising you to rush home to your city and call the church leaders of the other church (ICOC or mainline). That might end in disaster in some places.

Mark Love: Where do we proceed from here?

Terry Smith:
There has to be good information and time, and the Holy Spirit can take it from there. It’s his operation, and let’s give him time. If we will honor one another, and do like John says, go into the closet every day and get your eye fixed on Jesus, and pay attention to that day, to what God is calling me to, then I will be ready to join him in this process.

Gregg Marutzky:
Another place we have to go to is the healing. I think that is a place where you guys can help us a lot. You have more training—marriage and family training and therapy in Christian counselors, and I think we need to take advantage of that. A lot of this healing can be from our expertise, but a lot of us have got to be spiritual, so I think of our getting together and praying and really being spiritual with one another.

Al Baird: One thing that can definitely help us is to put a lot more emphasis on the things that are positive and the things we are alike in than the ways that we are different and the negatives. I think we’ve been experts at picking each other apart and finding our faults, and yet we have so much in common.

Mark Love: Are there cautions we want to add today as we look at the future?

Jack Reese:
A caution against arrogance, against haste, against getting ahead of God in this process, a willingness to ask hard questions in a gentle spirit will be a requirement in this process. There is sometimes in the name of honesty a kind of cruelness that pins the person or causes them to become so defensive that it’s difficult to respond. So there is a way to me of engaging one another in conversation. Which is to say that to work through the differences is going to take time and care.

Mike Taliaferro:
For us, one caution is to become distracted from the real need as God sees it. And the real need is that there are several billion people out there that are lost. And the real winner when two groups like ours who try to preach the gospel bicker and separate — the real winner is Satan. And the real loser is the people that would have heard the gospel if we had been focused on what we should have been doing all around. ... I look forward to us encouraging and helping one another and being brothers with one another and lifting one another up as we get the word out to lost communities because that’s the real problem as God looks down — that these people need to hear the good news.

John Wilson:
Earlier, I was describing the fact that in some ways we have started this line of conversation by putting the uppermost bricks in the wall, and now there are a lot of bricks that have to go below that to be sure the wall stands. Always there is some hard work in that, and it means that once you and I respect each other and even after we understand and trust each other, there has to be some substantial discussion about what holds the wall up there. A tendency I have seen for some time is that we often get ideas that are considerably ahead of our theology.

We start on a project without being sure we have a good, strong biblical foundation for it. I am not so sure but what both movements have some work to do there—probably first internally and then in our relationship with each other. That’s a caution. ... I would even suggest kind of moratorium on mutual judgments. It’s awfully good when first getting acquainted or reacquainted with one another—being sure you understand what they are saying before you decide whether that’s right or wrong.

Gregg Marutzky: ... I just pray we can go from here and help people to experience more than just the tape or the manuscript or the videotape. I just hope people aren’t going to list to those tapes and say, “Whoops. There’s something I didn’t agree with. Well, I didn’t get to explain myself fully or qualify it either. So I think this idea of “Let’s not judge or criticize” and encourage people by saying “hey, we’re open. Call us.”

Mark Love:
This is a summary of things we talked about before we came in—places where we can learn from each other, places where we have admiration and respect for each other.

1. From a mainline perspective, we want to learn more about church planting. You have done far more than we have, and we need to learn about that for you.

2. We need to recover a passion for evangelism, and that’s a place where you can help us.

3. Minister training is something we can benefit from mutually. You guys see our schools as being really important in filling out some theological depth for minister training, but sometimes we can train people deeplym and they go to churches and don’t have any idea what to do. And your ministers learn on the ground and get some kind of formal patterning that is important.

4. Yesterday, we learned that some of us leave them and some of us squeeze them. Both of us need to think a lot about how Christians are formed over a lifetime, how we are as Paul said, “Being saved and transformed into the image of Christ.” That’s a project we need to work on together.

5. We both can learn from each other in the area of sectarianism and elitism, and maybe loving each other despite our differences is the first training ground for us along those lines.

6. Gregg has mentioned some things about worship that he is hoping maybe the ICOC can learn from.

Mark Love: Let’s dream. Give one sentence — a picture of your hope for the future.

Jim Woodroof: I would love to suggest that we have a great big gigantic homecoming for all the Restoration participants regardless of their stripe. ... Somebody is already on to it and meet these brothers and sisters we haven’t seen in 40 years.

Gregg Marutzky: My dream is for all our churches whether we are ICOC or mainline to be churches that are approximating the kingdom where God reigns, and they are bright lines in the community and they are all multiplying and growing. And they are healing people. And they are so attractive that everyone in their community knows about it. I want for God to really reign.

Al Baird: A back to Jesus dream. By your love for one another, people will know you are my disciples.

Jack Reese: I dream that Christians among all our churches that all over the world would pray together, listen to one another, worship together, work together, envision what it would be like to plant churches around the world in whatever way is possible among our churches, and that we would do it with a spirit of surrender to God first.

Gordon Ferguson: I want us to be able to learn to appreciate diversity, not be put off by it or afraid of it, and love in spite of it.

Terry Smith: I wish we would have a hunger for the world and ask God to teach us.

John Wilson: I am highly anticipating the next surprise.

Mike Taliaferro: If you had told me on Saturday when we sat down for the first conversation, this is where we will be on Wednesday, my jaw would have dropped. To me, one thing I want to carry away from here is the goodwill and the great friendships that have been established among us around this room. And it’s really been a miracle ...

Mark Love: Let’s hear these words from Romans as we close: “For by the grace given to me, I say to everyone among you not to think of yourself more highly than you ought but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

“We do not live to ourselves; we do not die to ourselves; if we live, we live to the Lord; if we die; we die to the Lord, so then whether we live, or whether we die, we are the Lord’s.”

A final word of gratitude to Wendell Broom. This was Wendell’s seed. He came to me several months ago and said there are a lot of good folks in the ICOC, and they are going through a lot of transition right now. Is there anyway we can talk. Thank you Wendell, for bringing us together.